chestnutnola: (Default)

[personal profile] chestnutnola 2017-08-27 12:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I find RPF deeply uncomfortable for the reasons you've stated, as well. Though, I will admit when I was new to reading fanfiction years ago, I did read a few RPF's and even though they were quite good, I was uncomfortable as I was reading them. I avoid RPF and have for years since then. I do think that intimate sex scenes are a wonderful thing to read, but for me the plot and characterization come first and are the reason I read in the first place whether it be original fiction or fan fiction. I rarely read pure PWP's or Erotica, since I find those types of stories have superficial characterization without any emotional depth. I've tried to write two PWP's and have failed utterly, since I can't not write without a plot and an emotional viewpoint. So they are Porn With Plot rather than a true Porn Without Plot stories, and I'm okay with that. Objectification of the actors who play the character's we love, I do think is part of the fandom consciousness. For me, yes, I love the actors that play my beloved characters, but the character's and their canon worlds are the most important thing for me. When I post actor pics on my wall, I think of them in terms of their fandom characters. It's a fine line, but a necessary one in my opinion.

I'm not really into reading most BDSM stories, but I enjoy Ties That Bind because of your plot and characterization. It's a wonderfully exciting SGA adventure and I do find the BDSM aspects and world you've created fascinating. Best, The Nut.
Edited 2017-08-27 12:06 (UTC)

[personal profile] shallan 2017-08-27 12:22 pm (UTC)(link)
It does show through...very well. Your stories are about relationships and romance and I enjoy reading them. The sex is just a part of it, but I don't see it as the main intent. Like you, I do not read real person fiction. How can people write those type of stories when they do not know that real live person?
yanagi_wa: (Default)

[personal profile] yanagi_wa 2017-08-27 05:49 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't read RPF, I just can't. Like you, I feel that characters are free for us to play with; real people are not. It's an invasion of their privacy that can be appalling.
esteefee: Amanda from Highlander giving sardonic smirky smile (amanda)

[personal profile] esteefee 2017-08-27 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
wow, yeah. the voices are kind of insidious, tho. I kind of think of it like, as I write my story, I'm sharing it in my head with a really smart friend who finds me hilarious and awesome, and the smarter and funnier *they* are, the better the story gets, because it's a secret awesome...but then sometimes there are these hecklers who crowd in with stupid comments like that one?

I hate that.
em_kellesvig: Slash Goggles! (SGAMcShepLockandLoad)

[personal profile] em_kellesvig 2017-08-27 10:16 pm (UTC)(link)
Be glad to. I left most of them behind about twelve years ago for SGA, where the fans are better behaved. Seriously, SGA fandom is downright polite compared to some fandoms out there. You just have to be careful where you step. :D

[personal profile] rhiannonmr 2017-08-28 12:53 am (UTC)(link)
I've had issues with RPF/RPS for yrs going back to Star Trek fandoms. I've always had the feeling that the actors are off limits. They exist; they have people in their lives, families and such. Aidan Flanigan(JF's oldest) is 17 yrs old. He can certainly find RPF featuring his father IF he looks for it. Hell if he googles his mother it hits on the first page of the search! Yes I googled her, she's and artist and a damned good one. I won't read it, because I consider it disrespectful of the actor who is bringing the character to life on TV or in the movies. They may look good but what we are seeing is them as that character.

As for sex scenes in fiction? I'll read them but the plot is more important. I'm pretty much guilty of skimming the sex scenes and going more to the plot at times. And when I reread a fic, I read for the plot. Not really into PWPs myself. I love your writing because I love your take on John Sheppard and Rodney McKay. Both are complete beings and people I'd love to have in my corner as it were. Thanks for that. I've had days of enjoyment reading your stuff.

[personal profile] otrame 2017-08-28 04:07 am (UTC)(link)
Agree completely. There is a huge difference between playing with a fictional character and writing shit about real people. I never read RFP.

That said, I don't think having Larry King doing what Larry King does is a terrible crossing of the line. But it's your line. If you ever go back to it, making is a character that does Larry King-ish interviews will be fine.

And about the sex, while I enjoy your sex scenes, erm... sometimes quite a bit... they are not what makes your writing not only so readable, but so re-readable. Your stories, every single one of them, are about love. Other things happen in them, but underneath it all is love. That's what I want to read.

[personal profile] otrame 2017-08-28 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
I've always been interested in the differences in the "behavior" (for want of a better word) in various fandoms. And you are right. SGA fans are, relatively speaking, far more polite, and respectful of both the characters and authors than some other fandoms I've seen.
tabakat: (Default)

[personal profile] tabakat 2017-08-28 04:47 am (UTC)(link)
Amen. I admit I started to read rpf in the past. This was because I knew nothing of the 'fandom' when I realized I was reading fictionalization of real people and not characters, I hit back button so hard I think I broke my browser. While, actors, creators+, and writers can reasonably expect their characters to be adored by fans in ever evolving ways. The rpf fandom, bandom and more just struck a me as creepy. I've never understood people who cannot separate an actor from a character, or a celeberaties' public personae from reality.

It makes me worry about adults grasp of reality in general really.
tabakat: (Default)

[personal profile] tabakat 2017-08-28 04:55 am (UTC)(link)
Thank you for saying this. I was just about to get into the reverse is true debate. Besides, any well written and romantic sex scene in a romance book is unrealistic, let's just be real.
tabakat: (Default)

[personal profile] tabakat 2017-08-28 05:15 am (UTC)(link)
Don't you dare worry about posting Courting Hermonie Granger or any fic. It's awesome, it happens to be one of my favorites. Indian I had a daughter to make read it, to illustrate to her how she should expect to be treated!!!!. I'm not going to be a bigot or a hypocrite and say I don't love your sex scenes or haven't read something for those on occasion. But the characters have to have a emotion history for it to work for me and I actually more likely buy a good children's book. Good stor, less potholes, because kids spot those a fracking State away and are NOT forgiving as a hot romance. I love your stuff because of the great story. The hot sex scenes are just extra you should not feel hesitant for not providing if you don't want to. And now I'm going to hide I am not at all sure this makes sense cold meds are getting to me.

Sex in your stories...

[personal profile] wushu76 2017-08-28 07:40 am (UTC)(link)
I have a comment I have always wanted to make about your stories that I have hesitated to because I wasn't sure it would be taken as the compliment I meant it as. I love that if I'm just not in the mood, I can read any one of your stories, jump or just skim the sex scene, and it's still a wonderful story. Yes, you lose some of the intimacy of the relationships, but the story is still there. Present and interesting. I adore that about your writing. Even TTB which is clearly a world where sex is even more present.

So thank you very much!
em_kellesvig: John Sheppard with his hands over his face (SGAJSHero)

[personal profile] em_kellesvig 2017-08-28 12:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Some fandoms are amazingly welcoming and fun and friendly and some are...not. And while SGA is mostly intelligent and polite and friendly, there are pockets of rudeness, entitlement, and ignorance that surface here and there and make it uncomfortable for both writers and readers. RPF/S is a good example of that; it's entitlement of the highest order. Bandom, Hockey fic, etc. all fall into that same category.

I work with a few authors as an editor and find it really rude to see comments on a 10k+ story saying "more!!!" Or "That was really hot!" Writing and editing a story takes a lot of time, energy, and effort. To have all that work reduced to "where's the sequel" is really disheartening. Most readers don't do that crap but all it takes is a handful to really ruin a writer's motivation. In short, fans can be the best people in the world--and the worst.
Edited 2017-08-28 12:30 (UTC)
maine_1898: (Default)

[personal profile] maine_1898 2017-08-29 12:12 pm (UTC)(link)
To be honest, I often feel the same way!

True Dat

[personal profile] no1elsetoblame 2017-08-29 04:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Wise words. I volunteer with a mental health/suicide prevention organization that is closely aligned with a specific fandom. We have an awareness booth at their conventions, and are called upon to help out fans that may experience some extreme emotions during the signings and photo ops. I enjoy every moment of it, and respect the heck out of every fan I have interacted with - but some behaviors I have seen definitely illustrate what you describe in your post. I've watched cast members handle it extremely well while being extremely uncomfortable - they are pros. But - they shouldn't have to deal with such invasive and frankly scary situations. For too many people, there are no lines, which I believe shows an amount of disrespect - which I am sure that these fans aren't trying to show at all. But they don't get it. The fact that the cast is protected by many layers of physical barriers, handlers, body guards, and mental health personnel during these events should be an clue. However, people have expectations of what they want from these interactions, some probably fostered by ideas developed through RPF fandom -which may use real people as subjects but is still FICTION. It can be difficult to witness, and can also overshadow the majority of fans that sincerely want to express gratitude and honest admiration for the cast and crew's efforts. Being a bit "star struck" is one thing, and it doesn't cross boundaries. Objectification that leads to fetishism - a whole, different ball game. (P.S. While I do have to confess that there are parts in your stories that I read through my fingers [personal hang-ups], I honestly admire your works because they are about grownups handling both intriguing and difficult situations like grownups. Not as common in fanworks as one would want. Thanks for that.)
tabakat: (Default)

[personal profile] tabakat 2017-08-29 07:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I wasn't talking about a lack of great sex. I was talking about the sex is always perfect, never ackward, never ever messy, always seems to last for hours and the orgasms always seem to last five or more minutes mentality that crops up in porn, erotica or romance books.
syble4: (Default)

[personal profile] syble4 2017-08-30 02:38 am (UTC)(link)
I've always had a problem with RPF. It's slander, plan and simple. It's one thing to fantasize about an actor, but to write stories about them? That's beyond fantasy, that's hurtful. To them and their families. Saying it's only for fun, and for fandom only, is very ignorant. If you post it, it's out there and anyone, ANYONE, can find it. Do you really want to hurt their reputation or their life?
liekinloimu: (bunny)

[personal profile] liekinloimu 2017-08-30 08:53 am (UTC)(link)
I admit I hesitated to write this, as I’ve trodden extensively on the side of the devil here. I have had two fandoms where I read RPS in a major way.

I’m in no way refuting your points, since they are spot on.

Even though I have read a lot of RPS, I have never liked reading the type of stories you refer to in your post that try to imitate or modify reality to suit the writer’s world view. I have only ever read a handful of these type of stories, most of them by accident, since what I like to read are stories set on sci-fi and fantasy universes or the occasional “bakery-au” type of stories that kind of only borrow the looks, names and some typical characteristics of the actors’ public persona but could actually be original works with very little modification. Some of the best fics I’ve ever read have been of this type of RPS.

However, I do recognize the problem even these types of fics pose; they can make some readers think they know the real persons in question even more than they would think otherwise. They do, after all, use real persons as the base of the story, no matter how far removed the actual story is from the reality.

Unfortunately, fandom or no fandom, there are always going to be people who confuse the actor with the character they play. Only the other week there was a facepalm worth news story about a sales clerk who refused to sell a case of beer for an actor on the basis of the alcohol problem his character is suffering from in a popular television serial. Admittedly the fandom does spread this problem around in the mass hysteria kind of way, though.

I do sometimes wonder about the writers of the types of fics you describe in your post, who demonize the wives/girlfriends or make them cheat their wives or use the actors’ real children in their writings. Do they really not get that they could actually be sued for slander by the people in question? I guess not.

To be fair, sometimes I’d like to see the PR machinery behind the actors/singers take some responsibility for the shit they sow. In one of the comments to your post, was probably on Facebook, somebody mentioned about the Supernatural actors, how they flirt with the Misha /Jensen shippers but are more bothered by the J2, because the J2 fans are so batshit crazy. Well, there was a time when they flirted with the J2 fans as well and even sometimes threw gasoline in the flames, most probably because some publicist thought it a good idea (insert facepalm here). I’m not very knowledgeable about bandom stuff, but I’ve understood something similar happened with for example One Direction. Then when shit hits the fan and way too many fans (ha!) have been sold on a purely fictional relationship, the actors/singers and their significant others are the ones left to take the crap. The PR people should know better than to do this.
timepiece: (cellist)

[personal profile] timepiece 2017-08-30 02:18 pm (UTC)(link)
I, also, have read a fair amount of RPF for one fandom. But I will say that I never read the ones that had them cheating on their wives, and in fact I tended to prefer the RPF AUs, which might as well have been called original fic where the characters were named after the actors, and looked like them. Often set in high school and college.

Some of them are amazing. There was one particular one with a boy raised in a fundamentalist household falling in love with another boy and being kicked out of his house that really should have the serial number filed off and get published.
albinobee: (Default)

[personal profile] albinobee 2017-08-31 12:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Honestly, before this post I wasn't even really aware of RPF. I mean, I knew it was out there, that it existed, but it ever impacted me. I'm in a fandom for the story and the characters, I read a fanfiction for the plot. I enjoy the wonderful worlds or interpretations of authors like you who really care about what they're putting out there in the world. That's why I pretty much reread your entire body of work every year or so, you have a story that I want to take in.

For me fetishizing the actors takes away from every part of a fandom. I don't want to think of the actor, I don't care about them beyond they're ability to bring a character to life. They are a vessel, nothing more or less. Once you focus on them or bring their lives into things they're a little less that beloved character and very much a real person. No thanks. Keep the appreciation for an actor's talent and for characters separate. It's a shallower reason than some of the other commenters here, but it's how I feel. I never hated it because I never understood why it existed and had zero interest in it.
Edited 2017-08-31 12:32 (UTC)
elikiros: (Default)

Amen to that.

[personal profile] elikiros 2017-09-03 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I believe that what you have said should be written in a "Poster for the perfect fan": enjoy the character and respect the actor, because they are two completely different and distinct realities, in fact many actors are very good at interpreting personalities completely different from oneself, personalities with which they sometimes do not share anything in terms of values or beliefs ... how is it possible to confuse / merge the two things?
About the rest: I prefer to read stories with a stunning plot and a good job of deepening the characters, sex can be an added ingredient in a successful blend - as in your stories, where sex is never an end to itself - otherwise it's just pwp, and some of these stories are really well written, no doubt, but the "plot" ends there ... I can't believe one can read a story of over 500 pages to remember only sex scenes!

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