The Ugly Underbelly of Fandom

[keiramarcos]

Content moved to Writing and Junk

Comments

[slvrbld47]

Wow, that is ... insane. Emotional manipulation at its worst. I sometimes wonder when I run into a writer that doesn't mind suggestions if I have run into one who just lives for the attention. But there are some subtle shades of grey because I have met writers who will listen to suggestions but only take ones that tickle their fancy versus the people who are so desperate for attention that they steal other peoples work and slap their name on it.

I admit to being very puzzled. When I actually managed to finish or post something I appreciate compliments but very much dread any posters asking for more.... I don't write quickly and have never developed the writing muscles for consistency (yet)... (if ever). Comments are a mixed bag and that is before considering people who aren't going to like it.... Like being an Actor, ugh, getting on stage, I don't think that is something I would do.

[sarehkert]

Yes it is ugly :(

[tahoeturquoise]

My first reaction was just to be aghast and flabbergasted. She really... that is a level of self-centeredness that is mindboggling, but I have to say, I'm not really surprised. I recently hit 60, and it's appalling to realize that for the last 30 years my mantra has been 'people are stupid'. Now, 'stupid' can cover a lot of territory, including unthinking cruelty, but since I've been floating around the edges of various fandoms (around 15 years now)and peeking over the shoulders of writers I've come to realize that y'all deal with a great deal of demanding deliberate cruelty. If I was the praying sort I would be praying that y'all are never overwhelmed by the cruelty and stupidity.

I just read the Rough Trade announcement. Maybe I will try praying...

[spennig]

People drive me crazy. I may not always reply or review, but if I don't like it I'll wander off and find something else, not give someone crap about it. I'm just glad people write, since I struggle to do so. I've got a great outline for what I want to write, and a couple of snippets of things in the setting, but just haven't managed to actually follow through with the rest. I am thrilled that there are writers who WILL write and share, and that I can be a beneficiary. Whining seems counter-productive, if I want to keep being able to feed my reading habit.

I'm curious, as a writer, do you like/appreciate short review/replies that are just "love your writing" or "I liked this one" but without any useful indication why? Or would you consider that not worth the time posting? Is it better to leave anything or better to leave something more detailed like "I loved this one, great character development, I look forward to seeing what ___ does with ____ situation." and such?

[keiramarcos]

I'm comfortable with either. For some people, leaving even a few words of feedback can be a struggle.

It's one reason why I would never dream of demanding feedback OR being one of those assholes who holds a fic hostage for more feedback.

[esteefee]

Christ that's some ugly manipulation right there. I'm sorry you had to deal with that, babe.

[keiramarcos]

I'm starting to shed this kind of manipulation like water, you know?

I was outraged for like a hot minute and then it was -- yeah, okay, whatever.

[danceswithgary]

How awful. It's good you have a way to handle this type of "feedback" and I hope for better days for you. *hug*

[020104isme]

It beggars belief that people still send you messages like that. You couldn't be any clearer on your opinion of such entitlement.

Personally, I continue to be delighted with all you produce. If something is not my cup of tea (not that there has ever been much of that), I simply hit the back button.

I then practice patience until the next story comes along to sink my teeth into.

As always, thank you for sharing your gift with us.

[em_kellesvig]

I always look forward to anything you write (you've introduced me to fandoms I never thought I'd read, so thank you!) but the idea of demanding anything from you or other writers, let alone threats or blackmail, is just horribly appalling. As both a writer and an editor, I know just how difficult producing a story can be; readers adding pressure is just unnecessary and cruel. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this crap. Please just remember that for every asshole out there, there are ten more of us happily waiting with baited breath for your next fic or update. Thank you for writing when so many of us can't.

[rhiannonmr]

This is ugly. I saw the announcements on RT and I was stunned. The rules of that forum are clear. I read there and I enjoy it and I am saddened that a writer LEFT because of entitled readers. I am grateful for good writing. I enjoy reading it and I KNOW I will never write as well or as prolifically as some of the RT writers do.

I also cannot believe the lack of respect. Your space; your rules. If someone can't abide by them they need to go. RT is open to the reader as a courtesy, it wasn't meant for the reader, it was meant for the writer. That readers can enjoy it is a bonus for the reader and as someone who reads but doesn't write I totally appreciate it.

[ymfaery]

...............

Okay, what I find really offensive about that email you got is that you made it EXTREMELY clear that Phoenix was meant to be a gift to your niece. That level of entitlement is just.. ugh. I don't have the right words to express how pissed I'm feeling on your behalf. I don't care if they're dying of cancer or not, that's just wrong in so many ways.

Also, I clearly need to log in to RT more often, since I didn't know there until reading the earlier comments that some folks were being stupid on the site.

People are assholes just went up another notch on my opinions meter

[armitage374]

First of all, that kind of emotionel black mail is wrong on so many levels, I dont think it can be properly quanitifed* by rational people.

Unfortunately its not the first time I've seen a writer being haunted from the internet by morons. I don't know if anyone here remember Mincka83, a promising fanfiction writer that ended up deleting all of her stories (still sad that her "Tony the Seal" series isn't going to be finished). From what I picked up on the situation, it was entitled assholes like that, that harrassed her to the point where she lost all joy in writing. They stalked her all over the internet from site to site.

It pisses me off. Not just on her behalf. But also all the new authors who runs into these jerkoffs and decides that what could be a fun venture simply isn't worth the effort.

*Thats how my autocorrect insisted it was spelled, but it still looks wrong to me?

Re: People are assholes just went up another notch on my opinions meter

[twilight_seeker3]

Fortunately some of us have all the stories she did write and are willing to share as she did not, to my knowledge, ask they not be. It saddens me beyond telling that good writers get driven away by assholes and entitled twunts.I hope the writer on RT who withdrew knows how much so many of the rest of us enjoyed her work. Sadly now we an not even contact her in support.

BarbG/twi

[belle_meri]

Yeah - I know all about the annoying entitled assholes of fandom. Between them and having one of my professional publishers close up shop without warning - and without a reversion of rights for my stories with them - I've all but given up on writing. It's too stressful. I ended up officially depressed after the mess and am just now - five years later! - starting to recover.

[iadorespike]

Every time I hear something like this, I think...this is the worst - it can't get any worse than this. And then...it does get worse. Honestly, I'm just glad that you are able to shrug it off the way you do, because we'll all lose a lot if you decide you just don't want to deal anymore. :( I kind of want to cling to you - just in case. Um.

Thanks, Keira, for hanging in. *hugs*

Oh, completely off topic, I'm re-reading Fall for You for the fifth or sixth (?) time. :) It's one of my go-to happy places. :D

[ninja007]

This is exactly why I choose to stay out on the fringes of fandom. I've seen and heard too much batshit crazy behavior to want to have any part of it. I used to write, as well. That's gone, but I still read. Fanfiction is a GIFT to the reader. It should never be treated the way the crazy ones do.

Entitled idiots

[dv-12383.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear people have been that rude, I've been enjoying the RT and i can't believe people would ruin it like that, if it's not rude may I ask who left? I always love RT because I get to read some very interesting stories and you writers have me checking the site 6 times a day just to see if anyone has written some more awesome fanfic I mostly lurk because I don't want to say something wrong and be rude or entitled. I hope this doesn't put more people off!

Re: Entitled idiots

[keiramarcos]

I'm not going to post her name. It would/could lead to more attention for her that she doesn't want.

[sister_of_strife]

That is just disgusting! I'm appalled at how easily some people feel it's okay to demand things :(
Your work is *your* work, we're just lucky that you decide to share it <3
Maybe you should start having initiation trials to your cult :D

[adafrog]

I honestly never really understand when an author asks for ideas and suggestions. Isn't that their story? Now maybe once in a while, when a story truly could go either way, but some say they need it to continue the story. ??

[irish_dragon]

I don't really leave comments often, but I really enjoy your work. AND OMG REALLY?! From my understanding challenges are challenges and fic is usually sequestered for the challenge for the duration of the challenge, and you will not see it anywhere else till such time the author deems it fit for public consumption. I am so sad that an author left because some one was a dick! I was really enjoying the story, and then I couldn't understand when it vanished. So Yes, now I know.

I can honestly say I didn't start reading Hermione and Harry Fanfic till I started reading your fiction. I really enjoy your work and JillyJames, and a lot of authors you are networked with. I love your writing style, I love the work you put into to it to make it work. I love your creative genius. I love most all of your fiction, I say most because I usually just read the long ones. So I like the fact that you have this iron fist on your site. It's your right, just as it is any other other's right, your site, your rules, if you don't like it leave, or if you're rude be banished. I actually like that. Sometimes people just don't understand boundaries even when it hits them in the face.

[winter_elf]

Wow... that's like... wow. glad you have a way of filtering future blackmail.

*facepalm* I am so upset with the RT news. I was enjoying that story! How were those idiots pestering the author outside of RT? I didn't think the author's email were available - or maybe they knew her from before? UGH. I hope she give you the info of the idiots to ban from the site and I'm so sorry at what happened.

[amkave]

I've followed the Author in question for a *really* long time. I was delighted to see her on RT knowing challenges have been hit and miss because her life is super busy and chaotic. I was also devastated when a reader went around all the protections set up for RT authors to dig at her.

As I understand it it was a reader who has done it to this Author before and had a working email address. The author has a giant body of work and her followers and cheerleaders know she writes what she can when she can, and if derailment happens, well maybe that massive epic only gets three quarters done. As longtime readers we are okay with that, because sometimes she comes back around to a story or scenario or universe.

Several years ago she locked down most of her work and moved it off most archive sites, just so she didn't have to deal with trolls.

She may take a few months off but hopefully she'll be back. As I told her we'll still be here to support her.

[elikiros]

Just... how can people be so RUDE! I firmly believe that anything authors decide to share with all of us is a gift! and as such it must be received: you don't like it, please press the little button high on the left, and don't feel entitled to make demands, since the authors have their real lives too and are not at your beck and call! I admit I don't comment often, and when I do, I sometimes feel I'm not able to express all that I think, since english it's not my mother language, and I'm afraid I'm not able to give justice to a great job, so more often than not it's just an 'I like it very much' sort of comment. But if I'm not satisfied, I stand by the motto 'silence is golden' and look for something else...I sure as hell don't arass the author!

[legessa27]

There needs to be a PSA or something about entitled fuckwits'comments and how they affect the writing community (do they still do those?)

I've posted fics that were basically built from a stray thought that made me smile. Just small fics. But some people's reviews have roasted me for not laying out a whole backstory as to how a character arrived in that point in their life. All this for what was meant to be a small vignette in a character's life.

Then there are the authors out there like you that build whole universes or deal with the big what if's that build an epic developed story. The fact that there are commenters out there who have the arrogance to tell you all what you should be do in you own worlds and when is mind boggling.

Really a PSA is needed, although do you think it would even make a dent?

[keiramarcos]

No, it'll never even make a scratch.

Crazy People

[dwheyhoeaway]

I seldom comment, although I love your writing and appreciate the work that goes into your storytelling. The collective bravery of the folks who put their work out there stuns me - and the challenges and writing for Rough Trade even more so. Whether I have a favorite genre or fandom is irrelevant - no one owes me or any other reader a damn thing. Y'all just keep on writing what brings YOU joy (or fulfillment, 'cause sometimes writing is just HARD). If it's posted where the rest of us can enjoy the fruits of your hard work, that's a GIFT, for which I and, I expect, most others thank you from the bottoms of our hearts.
While I have been in customer service way, way too long to have anything like a good opinion of human nature, it's tremendously annoying to consider the dreadful comments y'all have to deal with. My respect and appreciation to you ALL.

Boggled

[scaley4]

Wow...just wow.
Almost twenty years ago, I was very ill with low energy for over a year. During that time beyond basic necessities, about all I had the energy for was reading. One particular fanfic author's work was very engaging for me at the time. As I recovered, I wrote her to tell her how much her stories touched me at a low point in my life and that I appreciated that she shared them with the public. Basically, I wrote her a thank you letter for the positive impact she had unknowingly had on my life. And that was where I left it, because while it was important to me to thank her, it was not my place to push my emotional connection to the works onto the author. I can't imagine taking that gratitude she engendered in me and turning it into some sort of entitlement to her time and energy.
Sometimes people are exactly what years in the customer service industry have led me to expect. Or worse.
Every so often, I see posts from you in this vein and I am astonished by the sheer obliviousness some people have about where their limits should be.

[notaminion]

I completely agree. It's not right that you and other 'big name fans' have to deal with even more of this BS than other writers, either. It's like the quality of your content and the quantity of such high-quality work-- that you work INCREDIBLY hard on-- makes them feel even more entitled. Fic writers are people, not machines who church out fanfic, and we do it for *free*.

As an aside, I read your Harry Potter fics long before I even knew what Stargate was. I recently learned what Stargate was and watched Atlantis a few months ago. I, ofc, never presumed to have an opinion on what fandoms *you* choose to write for, or what projects you feel like focusing on, I was just (at the time) like 'oh, cool'. Correct response (as a reader who didn't know anything about Stargate): minding my own business.

Now that I know what Stargate is, probably the *best* part of that knowledge was getting to read the years of hard work and dedication you put into your Stargate fics, which are just as amazing and wonderful as your HP fics. Let me take the opportunity to thank you for continuing to post your fics online when you certainly don't have to, esp. considering all the nonsense you have to deal with from entitled fuckers.

(Really, your Stargate fics are *amazing*. Just so you know. Every thing you post is just so great and I'm always stunned by the sheer work that goes into your writing. We're all so blessed with your patience in the face of dumbasses.)

[keiramarcos]

Thanks, McShep will always be my OTP.

Unbelievable

[miscbills]

I love your work and I have been following you on fanfiction archives online. I always appreciate what you post. For your creative hard work, I appreciate it. Never in my wildest dreams or nightmare would I would invade or manipulate you for more works. It is free creative writing and I am grateful. That is indeed the dark side of being best of the best in Fanfiction writing.

[a_musingthought]

Wow. I’m sort of speechless, to be honest. I’ve always hated author notes that ask for feedback & replies, but for purely selfish reasons. As a reader they take me out of the story and thus, annoy me. But that people feel entitled to tell you where they think a story should go or what fandom to write in is beyond the pale. I’m a non-fiction writer with a legal background. I’ve had opinion pieces and interviews and reviews published and I am in awe of the talent and discipline that goes into writing fiction. I wrote 30,000 words of a story last summer only to realize it sucked because it had no compelling plot points. I’ve been reading your and Jilly's works voraciously recently, trying to figure out how you get plot, character, and pacing to work together so magically. Your work draws me in, and no matter how fantastical the subject or action, I’m breathless and needing to read the next chapter/scene like I need air. That any reader thinks you need their ideas or wishes for a story? Well, they are too delusional and stupid to exist.
Anyway, this was my long-winded way of saying thank you for not letting these people turn you off writing in fandom completely. 😘